DATE=3/14/02

TYPE=INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

TITLE=HIRAM RUIZ, U.S. COMMITTEE FOR REFUGEES

NUMBER=3-89

BYLINE=TOM CROSBY

DATELINE=Washington

INTERNET=

/// Editors: This interview is available in Dalet under SOD/English News Now Interviews in the folder for today or yesterday, 3/13. ///

HOST: The United Nations Refugee Agency says more than 22-thousand Afghan refugees have returned home from camps in Pakistan since March 1st with U.N. help. Hiram Ruiz of the Washington-based U.S. Committee for Refugees tells VOA's Tom Crosby it takes some courage for them to make that trek home.

MR. RUIZ: It's not going to be totally safe in Afghanistan. There is still a great deal of lawlessness and criminality in the country. And certainly one of Afghanistan's very major priority needs is security. There is an international peacekeeping force which is helping, but their presence is limited to certain regions and certain functions. So security is going to be I think perhaps the major consideration for many people thinking of going back, although of course there are so many issues to consider, including whether they are going to be able to survive economically when they return.

MR. CROSBY: That is a very important question. Is there an answer to that right now?

MR. RUIZ: I think that there is no one answer that fits all, as it were. Some of the people who are returning are returning to urban centers and are particularly people who were from cities or who are members of ethnic minorities who had left because of the Taliban rule. And some of these folks have skills that are going to be needed now. There are a lot of nongovernmental organizations, U.N. agencies, Afghan Government agencies which are reemerging, that need all kinds of trained personnel. There is going to be funding for hospitals and schools, especially for women and girls, things that haven't existed, and they are going to need trained personnel. So, yes, for some people there will be jobs.

For farmers, who are the vast majority of Afghans returning, the drought continues in many parts of the country, and their homes have often been destroyed, their fields have been unused for a long time, the irrigation ditches are gone. So it is going to be quite a challenge for them to try to make a go of it.

MR. CROSBY: For many years, of course, when we talked about Afghanistan, we talked about the landmines that still, even now, litter the country. One would tend to think the most recent fighting may have also left some unexploded ordnance that might be a danger for those returning home.

MR. RUIZ: Absolutely, those are both incredibly serious problems, not only in Afghanistan but unfortunately in a number of other countries. And that is something else that puts both returning Afghan refugees and local people at risk. And those are, again, one of the many risks that people take in going back. Yet, it is really heartening to see the very large number of Afghans that have started to return. Just from Pakistan in November and December, even as the conflict was ongoing, some 30,000 or more returned. And then, between January and February, that number rose to well over 100,000. That was from Pakistan; large numbers are also returning from Iran.

Of course, there are 3 and a half million or more Afghan refugees in those countries, so it is still a drop in the bucket. But I think what experience these folks have will help to determine the decisions that other refugees will make in the coming months and years.

MR. CROSBY: When we talk about those refugees who remain in those countries, are they welcome guests for the most part?

MR. RUIZ: Not anymore. For many years, in Pakistan in particular, which is a country I visited three times last year, for many years during the eighties, during the Cold War, they were receiving a lot of international support, and basically they were welcomed. During the nineties, and especially the latter part of the nineties, they became increasingly unwelcome and, by 2000-2001, were actively harassed, particularly those living in urban centers. And both Pakistan and Iran routinely forcibly returned Afghan refugees from especially the cities. So they are not welcome, and both countries want them to leave.

Pakistan has been shouldering what it regards as a heavy burden for more than 20 years and I think they feel very strongly that things have started to change significantly in Afghanistan and that it's time for the refugees to go home. While we remain very concerned about security and the ability of people to survive at home, there is also something to be said for refugees beginning to take a serious look at the possibilities of returning in the coming years.

HOST: Hiram Ruiz of the U.S. Committee for Refugees talking with VOA News Now's Tom Crosby.

NEB/KBK