DATE=04/12/02

TYPE=INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

TITLE=EDGAR PURYEAR, FORMER AIR FORCE OFFICER

NUMBER=3-123

BYLINE=TOM CROSBY

DATELINE=WASHINGTON

INTERNET=

/// Editors: This interview is available in Dalet under SOD/English News Now Interviews in the folder for today or yesterday ///

A report in the Washington Post newspaper suggests President Bush has approved some widespread changes in the top command positions in the U-S military ... generals and admirals he and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld view as non-conformist officers who would support the administration's goal of radically changing the armed forces. The newspaper says those changes...if they happen...are still months away. The most noteworthy move would put U-S Marine Corps Commandant General James Jones in the position of Supreme Allied Commander in Europe.

Edgar Puryear is a former Air Force officer and author of the just-published book "American Generalship" about the art of command. He tells News Now's Tom Crosby General Jones would not only be the first marine to become Supreme Allied Commander...but also would bring expertise in international relations to the job:

MR. CROSBY: We've had this report out of the Washington Post, saying that President Bush has approved some fairly widespread changes that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has been contemplating in the top leadership of the U.S. military. And it looks as if he is going for some fairly nonconformist thinkers to eventually head up the top ranks of the military. Are we lacking in that, from what you can see, of this unconventional sort of thinking, and do we need that right now?

MR. PURYEAR: Again, I think it has to be taken on a case-by-case basis. It depends upon the service. It depends upon the individual. It depends upon who the Chief of Staff is of the Army or the Navy. It depends upon who the Chief of Naval Operations is. The Chief of Naval Operations is a really superb individual and certainly is somebody who is approaching things in a somewhat different way. He really is loved by the Navy. So I can address that because I'm more current with that. But where I've been very familiar with previous Army and Air Force chiefs of staff, I'm not as familiar with the ones at the present time.

MR. CROSBY: So what has he done to make himself so well appreciated?

MR. PURYEAR: He's such a people person. And he very much is interested in the individual sailor. He is unique. This is Vern Clark, who is the Chief of Naval Operations. He is unique because he was in the Navy and left and came back, but he is only the second person to be Chief of Naval Operations who is not a Naval Academy graduate, and very much has the respect, as I see it, from the Naval Academy graduates. It has been pretty much, historically, only Naval Academy graduates. Now, Admiral Boorda was not a Naval Academy graduate, and he was one of the first people to be what they call a Mustang. But unfortunately he, as you know, took his own life a few years ago.

But Vern Clark, I've heard him lecture and I've read a lot about him, and he certainly is the kind of person, in my opinion, that President Bush is looking for, and has [chosen].

MR. CROSBY: Now, General James Jones, the Commandant of the Marine Corps, is the likely man to become Supreme Allied Commander in Europe. This would be the first Marine to hold that post, isn't it?

MR. PURYEAR: Yes, it is. And what's interesting is he's a graduate of Georgetown University, the School of Foreign Service, and was basically raised in France in the early years of his life because of his father's position in industry over in France. And he is bilingual. And watching, again, of course, you don't become Commandant of the Marine Corps if you're not a people person. But I have interviewed General Jones, and he is just a very impressive individual.

MR. CROSBY: Is it that important that they have command of the French language when they assume command of the troops in Europe?

MR. PURYEAR: It's not going to hurt. Years ago, General Lauris Norstad, who was an Air Force officer, was NATO Commander during the tenure when President de Gaulle was there. And they left General Norstad there forever because he got along so beautifully with General de Gaulle. And not many people did get along well with de Gaulle, because he was rather self-centered and of course doing what he thought was important to renew the stature of France in the world. And not only that, but General Norstad could have become Air Force Chief of Staff, but it was determined by the government that he was so valuable there.

So what I'm saying is that connection with France is certainly going to be of great assistance to the NATO position.

MR. CROSBY: As one who has written extensively about generals in history, does the new scenario that we are seeing on the world front, the Afghan war, the Persian Gulf war, the problems that the U.S. military had in Somalia, suggest that we need people who are going to be looking at these problems from perhaps a different point of view -- as we sometimes say, thinking outside the box -- even though I don't like to use such trite phrases?

MR. PURYEAR: When we go back on this, what is unique about the United States is, when World War II came around, we had people in the wings, like Eisenhower and MacArthur and Bradley and Patton, who put up during the twenties and thirties with low pay, cuts in pay, inadequate equipment -- we were the 17th or 18th in the world as far as the size of our army was concerned. But when the challenge came, they were there.

And I think what you find, for example, going back first to Desert Shield and Desert Storm, you had a Norman Schwarzkopf, who I think did an exceptional job. I interviewed him, too, and I studied a great deal about him. Of course, you'll find critics of him, but you're always going to find people who are critical, but General Schwarzkopf was there when we needed him. And right now, with Afghanistan, we have the fellow that we do there, General Franks. So, again, what I would say is we are blessed in this country. And that, indeed, when these crises do come about, we have men who have dedicated their lives to serving God and country.

And where they might think in terms of wanting a different personality, all I can say is, with our military, they have been outstanding. We've had them there when we needed them. So, I'm not sure exactly sure, with this announcement that you mentioned today, about what President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld wants to do. I'm not sure precisely what it is they have in mind or what they're looking for, but I do know the selection of Marine Corps Commandant General Jones is a superb selection.

Just to think that he was in the School of Foreign Service, and then they're sending him over there to Europe, that was his interest as a young man, and then he went on to become Commandant. I think he was in the class of '68 or so, maybe. I'm not sure of the exact class, but I do know that that's his background, Georgetown University.

MR. CROSBY: Do you think that Colin Powell, as Secretary of State, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, may have had some influence on what the administration is thinking right now about who the top generals ought to be?

MR. PURYEAR: I don't know. As Secretary of State, I don't know. He certainly knows many of these people. I know, for example, he knew General Zinni, who is now over there and trying to help solve the situation in Israel. But I do know for a fact that General Powell got to know General Zinni during his tenure within the military. So that was certainly probably a factor in why they sent General Zinni over there.

But with respect to the others, I don't know. But, in all fairness, I think, as Secretary of State, it would be wrong for him to get involved in those kinds of decisions now, number one, because he has been out of the military for such a long period of time.

I represented a four-star general here in Madison, a very, very prominent man. As an attorney, I represented him. And I was asking him some questions, and he said one thing that's real important is that when a military officer retires, he has to realize that every day that goes by he is that much less up on what's going on and, in all fairness, he should step aside and not interfere.

For example, Chester Nimitz, when he retired, they kept Admiral King on as Chief of Naval Operations, as an advisor after World War II, and really ignored him. And Chester Nimitz made the comment that when he retired, he was leaving and he was going to leave it up to the others.

And basically, that has been the role of our military. In all fairness to the others, things change and really they ought to be left alone to run it the way they think it ought to be run.

(End of interview.)

Edgar Puryear whose new book is "American Generalship" spoke to us from his home in Madison, VA.

VNN/TC